Spoilers!!! If you have not seen the film I would not advise you to keep reading. Unless you are going to go back in time and force yourself not to read it later on. That is of course if you have access to a time machine.
So first off, let me just clarify that this is not a slam against the film. I really enjoyed Looper, and consider one of the better films that I have seen at the theater this year. In addition I thought the script was well done, I liked the look of the film and the performances by both JGL and Willis were great.
However I have some plot questions about the ending of the film:
At the film’s conclusion young Joe (JGL) has an epiphany, he sees that Cid becomes the Rainmaker due to being shot by Old Joe (Willis) and witnessing the death of Sara (Blunt). To prevent this series of events from happening Young Joe decides to shoot himself, in the belief that this will prevent Old Joe from shooting Cid and killing Sara and unleashing the Rainmaker.
My first question about this is that earlier in the film it is explained by Old Joe that every experience that Young Joe has is immediately turned into a memory of Old Joe. This is shown to happen a few times in the film. One instance that comes immediately to mind is Old Joe knowing that Cid is on the farm as soon as Young Joe sorts it out.
Now if memories are immediately passed to Old Joe, wouldn’t he then have the same epiphany that Young Joe does? If that is the case then why does Young Joe decide to kill himself? Wouldn’t old Joe already know that he should not kill Sarah as it will create the Rainmaker? That would make young and old Joe’s death unnecessary.
Another thing I have been thinking about is the relationship between Sara and Young Joe. Sara cleans up Young Joe and they are getting pretty hot and heavy, and this relationship obviously did not happen in Old Joe’s timeline previously. Wouldn’t that Young Joe/Sara relationship make it extremely unlikely that he is eventuually going to go to China and marry that other woman. Even if he had not become romantically involved with Sara, simply possessing the knowledge of what goes down in China is going to change what Joe does in the future. If either of those things are true then what is Old Joe’s motivation? Simple revenge?
One more idea I had was why doesn’t young Joe simply blast off his shooting hand with that blunderbuss? Wouldn’t that cause old Joe’s shooting hand to simply disappear as we saw happen earlier in the film with young/old Seth? If that is the case then isn’t young Joe killing himself sort of unnecessary?
Lastly, why does the mob have the young loopers kill the old versions of themselves in the first place? Wouldn’t it make more sense and cause less potential problems to simply have a different looper carry out the task?
Anyhow those are some questions that I have been asking myself since I saw the film. Certainly a great film and one that gets you thinking. Would love to hear some answers to my questions and any other plot questions that other people had with regards to the film.
{ 15 comments… read them below or add one }
These are some great questions, and some that we’ve thought about as well. And here’s what we think:
- It’s kind of explained that not all thoughts or actions that happen to Young Joe immediately get picked up by Old Joe. We actually think we remember that Old Joe can kind of just cherry-pick through Young Joe’s mind, so it’s possible in the state of rage/emotion Old Joe was in at the time he might’ve shot Sara before he picked up on Young Joe’s epiphany.
- We don’t think Young Joe getting hot and heavy would have had too big an effect on Old Joe’s future wife, for a couple of reasons. 1.) All Old Joe was really trying to do was save his wife’s life by killing the Rainmaker, and then leaving it in the hands of Young Joe to hopefully go down the same road and connect with her. Basically, revenge 2.) It was possible until Young Joe kills himself that Sara was going to die at the hands of Old Joe, meaning their tryst wouldn’t have had such an adverse effect on Old Joe’s wife/future. 3.) Young Joe didn’t have any exact knowledge of what happened in China. He knows his future wife is killed by the Rainmaker, but he doesn’t know what she looks like, where they live, etc. So by pure fate/destiny/whatever it’s still possible Young Joe could’ve gone to China and still met his future wife somehow.
- If Young Joe shoots his own hand off, Old Joe would still have another hand he could’ve just picked the gun up with.
- The last question is the best question. Only thing we can think of is that by letting the looper kill his future self and find the gold he KNOWS his loop is closed. For the most part they all seemed to embrace it.
Great questions! We love talking about this movie!
Great questions, great answers! You mirrored most of what I was going to say to answer them
Great minds think alike!
Two Tickets, I wonder about the relationship with Sara and Young Joe, first she breaks him of his drug addiction. This is something we see happening with Old Joe as well but not until he is in China. Secondly, his actions toward Sara and and Cid are the only actions we see him take in the film that are not completly self-centered. The majority of the film Young Joe is all about filling the wants and desires of Young Joe. He seems to only care about himself until he starts caring about Sara and cid so much so that he is willing to make the ultimate sacrafice.
Also while I agree Old Joe would still have his off hand to shoot with after losing his shooting hand. It would seem his level of shock at losing his hand and subsequent loss of accuracy might allow either Sara and Cid to escape or give Young Joe time enough to kill Old Joe.
I like this movie enough where I didn’t really question it too much. You’re right though, Joe’s relationship with Sara is very odd, but I think time travel ‘science’ as it were is always tough to explain. Thankfully, there’s some emotional payoff in this film that makes it more than just a cool action sci-fi.
The fact that Sara broke him of his addiction, directly reflects Old Joe’s relationship with his wife since she was the one to do it later on right? The fact that this happens and that Young Joe knows a little about Old Joe’s life, things will no doubt change course. I guess that’s if this follow that time traveling train of thought.
The decision for Young Joe to kill himself was probably meant to come across more instantaneous than what it seemed. His thoughts of an orphaned Cid turning into the Rainmaker reflected what happened to him as a child (at least that’s how I saw it) took time, but in reality those types of thought happen in a split second. I don’t think Old Joe would have time to realize his intentions.
Young Joe was a selfish bastard, to the point of ratting out one of his friends. I think his time on the farm thawed him out a bit, and his decision to kill himself to save Sara and by extension making sure Cid grew up in a loving environment, therefore preventing the creation of the Rainmaker, was a made in hopes of absolution for all the shit he’s done. I could be reading way further into it than necessary, but those are my thoughts.
Or as my dad would say….it happened because it was in the script.
Jesus…..so sorry for the horrible grammar and typos. Guess I should have proofed that before I hit “submit”.
Tracy don’t worry about it. I wish they had spell check available for comments
Also meant to say glad you posted this. I was wanting to get your take on the ending.
I think others have gone down the line pretty well, so I’ll just say something about Old Joe’s motivation. He’s just kind of crazed at that point. He’s not really thinking clearly about anything, especially since his memories keep going all over the place.
I don’t think either Old or Young Joe is a particularly good person, by the way. Old Joe is still a selfish prick. Young Joe had the epiphany and sacrificed himself, so he gets points for that. Maybe since the self-reflection happened a lot earlier in his life, it could have led to him being a better person. I think his sacrifice was something he saw as a choice between ultimate good and ultimate evil. All that really counts for is his potential, not how he wants to live his day-to-day life.
I’ve now exhausted my smart hat. Back in the closet it goes.
1. Let’s not forget just how foggy Old Joe’s mind was thanks to all the paradoxes, time travel’s brain-frying effect, and general panic over trying to get back to his wife. Even if Young Joe’s mind changed about killing the Rainmaker, Old Joe might not be mentally sound enough to follow through and likewise have a change of heart himself.
2. Just because Young Joe gets his freak on with Rainmaker’s mom, that doesn’t mean they ended up together. Similarly, just because she helps him dry out once doesn’t mean he won’t relapse once he closes his loop in the future. In fact, most people I know who have been through rehab have been through it multiple times just because it’s so tough to stay clean (doubly so when you have nothing to live for).
3. I think the Rainmaker had Loopers close their own loops because he hated them for killing his mother. It was his way of twisting the knife just a little bit more.
I like your third point a lot. It stands to reason.
Like I said in my review I don’t think this movie holds up well to inspection. It’s best to enjoy it for what it is and then move on. That said, I do have more questions… Why would they need to take the risk of having the looper kill the person in the first place? Why not just kill the guy then send the body back in time and have the looper dispose of it? There are tons of ways to do someone in that wouldn’t leave behind any initial evidence and after that the body would be gone anyway. Also, they mentioned during the course of the film that sending someone back slowly starts to mess with their brain. In fact, we see Bruce Willis under some duress during the course of the movie. If this is true, how has Jeff Daniel’s character managed to stay in the past for so long?
Like watching a Magician perform, this movie is very very highly entertaining, but you shouldnt look too closely at it or it’s going to fall apart. I think it would have been much easier to have the time-play explained by “creating a second time line”. That is to say, the original Old Joe timeline happened, and nothing can change it, but by traveling back in the past, he created a second timeline where a new, future “Old Joe” will be created that has no relation to the Old Joe in this movie, sitting in the diner, etc etc.
That would have been an easy, iron clad way to avoid any “Wait… what?”s but it also would have precluded neat-o things like the scar message on the arm and of course, that gut punch ending.
As it is, it leaves itself open to questions such as these…
Too many questions
It’s a time travel movie so we could literally go in loop (ahah) nitpicking all the what-ifs scenarios. I think what the filmmakers are trying to convey is that the circle of violence would continue anyway even if Joe blasts off his own hand or what not. Only taking his own live could have put an end to it.